Lawyers for two women who were defamed by Rudy Giuliani have spent months attempting to locate his assets in order to begin deducting the $148 million in damages owed to them.
On Friday, he testified for more than three hours in a federal courtroom in Manhattan, while attorneys meticulously reviewed his sworn statements in thick stacks of court documents.
Squinting into a small monitor in front of him, the 80-year-old former New York City mayor repeatedly stated that he never intentionally withheld information about his assets, did not recall seeing certain statements, and never willfully disobeyed court orders to turn over his property.
However, he admitted that he did not want to give the mother-daughter election workers his grandfather’s 120-year-old gold pocket watch.
“I felt it could get lost if I turned it over,” Giuliani stated on the witness stand.
Friday’s seven-hour hearing will be part of District Judge Lewis Liman’s decision on whether Donald Trump’s former attorney should be held in contempt for failing to comply with requests for evidence in a case stemming from a defamation judgment for his false claims against the women following the 2020 presidential election.
Attorneys repeatedly reminded Giuliani that Liman ordered his “unequivocal obligation” to comply with the court’s asset turnover order — or face potentially severe sanctions — but he now claims he has no idea where some of that property is, or if he ever had it in the first place.
Losing the watch is “the last thing I want,” he said.
He insisted, “I am not trying to hide it from anyone. I took it upon myself to put it somewhere safe. It’s the only thing that means anything to me.
A long list of Giuliani’s assets, including a 1980 Mercedes Benz, his New York penthouse apartment, and signed sports memorabilia, was initially included in Giuliani’s bankruptcy filing in his short-lived chapter 11 case after a jury found him liable for defaming election workers Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss while pursuing a bogus legal bid to overturn election results in states Trump lost.
“Mr. Giuliani, as it stands, you’re in violation of the court’s order,” Liman told him at the end of Friday’s hearing.
In his bankruptcy proceedings, Giuliani also claimed to have a signed Joe DiMaggio Yankees jersey, which is also shown in a frame hanging above a mantle in his Manhattan apartment in a real estate listing.
When attorneys for election workers arrived last October, the jersey was missing, as was the majority of the furniture in the apartment, which had been cleared out days before.
Throughout the apartment, Post-It notes with the words “take all” were stuck to various pieces of furniture.
Giuliani said it’s “possible” that the jersey was moved during that time period.
He challenged the testimony of his best friend, Alan Placa, who told lawyers during a deposition that he remembered the shirt in Giuliani’s Palm Beach condo.
The retired priest “made a mistake,” according to Giuliani, who claims the shirt was always in New York until it disappeared.
“I slept on the couch a lot and it’s the first thing I’d see when I woke up,” he told me. “He’s an excellent priest and monsignor. He just happens to be incorrect about this.”
According to Giuliani, the bankruptcy filings contained “inconsistencies” and “some things I didn’t have,” citing his divorces, multiple moves, and the need to account for property “quickly.”
He “just can’t find” a signed photo of Reggie Jackson, a former New York Yankees legend, among the memorabilia in court documents.
“I get confused about what I have and don’t have,” he told me. “I know you find that difficult, your honor, but I was blessed with a tremendous amount of Yankees memorabilia…” I am not hiding anything.”
Giuliani has already delivered the Mercedes, more than a dozen watches, and a “single diamond ring,” as well as access to his New York penthouse apartment, “but no keys or ownership documents,” leaving the women “to sort through significant logistical obstacles to a sale, including the presence of his ex-wife’s name on the title,” according to court documents.
He also only delivered “some” of the items in a storage facility that he was supposed to open for the women, they claimed.
In a series of court filings on Christmas Eve, Giuliani urged Liman to reject a demand for sanctions, claiming he had already turned over “everything” he was ordered.
“I respectfully submit that the items which I was required to turn over, I turned over,” wrote he. “The Court should see that I gave everything that I could give.”
According to recently unsealed court filings, Giuliani’s previous attorney, Kenneth Caruso, withdrew from the case after Giuliani allegedly refused to participate in a discovery process that included handing over his electronic devices.
Giuiliani claims he never discussed getting access to his devices with Caruso, a longtime friend and legal partner who appears to be representing him in his appeal of the initial defamation verdict.
He claimed he learned about Caruso’s notice of withdrawal from the newspaper, despite Caruso’s sworn statement to the court that he had emailed Giuliani about it.
“Is it your testimony today that Mr. Caruso was lying when he said that?” Liman asked. “Are you saying that it is untrue that he sent a copy of the motion to you via email?”
Giuliani also described requests for lists of attorneys and doctors he spoke with as “completely irrelevant” and “unnecessarily obtrusive.”
“If there is such a thing as abusive and overbroad, put that in the textbook,” he told me.
Giuliani also testified that he did not believe document requests for all “communications” included his emails.
Requests for copies of his calendars could not be fulfilled because he does not keep any, according to Giuliani’s testimony and a sworn statement in court documents. Giuliani has frequently brought his iPad to court to browse his virtual calendar.
He said he instead writes notes on paper for his desk about upcoming events, gives them to a secretary, and “she destroys them” after the event because “I don’t need them anymore.”
Giuliani’s attorneys requested that he appear remotely at the hearing the night before, citing “medical issues with his left knee and breathing problems due to lung issues” caused by the former mayor “being at the World Trade Center site on September 11, 2001.”
Giuliani will continue his testimony virtually on January 6.
However, later this month, he will return to court for a trial to determine whether he must surrender his multimillion-dollar Palm Beach condo to Freeman and Moss.
He will also face a contempt hearing in Washington, D.C., on January 10 for allegedly violating a court order in the original defamation case that forbids him from making false statements about Freeman and Moss.
Speaking to The Independent outside the courthouse on Friday morning, Giuliani expressed doubt that he would avoid sanctions.
“Look at this judge’s record. We haven’t won anything yet,” he explained. “People may question that. But in this case, we have not won a single, minor motion. Does that raise any questions?”
He declined to comment on his in-court behavior during a press conference on Friday evening.
“The judge must decide how I conducted myself,” he said, laughing.
